Intro: 00:00

Rich Palarea: Hello everybody and welcome back to The Healing the Hospital Podcast. I'm Richard Palarea. Today is March 8th. It's International Women's Day, and although this is a new show, we've already had some interesting and inspiring guests. You might recall Joann Ioannou, who's a senior advisor to the President at Johns Hopkins Health, and Suzi Collins, the market director of Supply Chain for Steward Health.

Both of those were great shows, and if you hadn't heard them yet, I'd encourage you to go back and take a watch or listen. And we have another dynamic guest for you today, Angie Haggard, the CEO of RDA Healthcare Supply Chain Services. We'll get to Angie's discussion in just a moment.

You know that this show is focused on healthcare leaders. And in that vein, we have launched two new LinkedIn groups moderated by one of our regional executives here at Kermit, Danielle Faza. Let me tell you about these groups, as you may think of joining one or both, or sharing them with women that could benefit from the conversation and the sharing of experiences.

The first group is called Women in Healthcare Supply Chain, or goes by the initials, WIHSC. And if you type that in the LinkedIn groups, it should pop right up. That group aims to connect women working in all roles of healthcare supply chain.

And the second group is the Women in Healthcare Finance, WIHF. And that group aims to connect women working in all roles of healthcare finance. Both of these groups have dedicated discussion moderators from the Kermit team and will give women in healthcare supply chain and finance, a place to network, share ideas and experiences, solve problems, and grow collectively.

Okay. I'm excited to bring you this discussion with Angie Haggard today. We get into some tough challenges in healthcare today, but this is a positive discussion where we won't get hyper-focused on the problems, but instead acknowledge them and talk a bit about the difference Angie and her organization are making with an innovative training program that will benefit individual growth and the healthcare industry at large. So let's get into the show.

I'm joined in studio now with my good friend, Angie Haggard. Hello, Angie. How are you today?

Angie Haggard: I am doing fantastic. Thanks for having me.

Rich: Yeah, it's great to have you. We'll get into, for the listeners, we'll get into a little bit about how I met Angie. It's a fun story, but Angie currently is the CEO of a company called Ron Denton and Associates. They're a healthcare supply chain consulting company with over 750 hospital and health system clients across the nation.

Prior to her now five year run at RDA, she had a long tenure with Owens and Minor in various roles, including Vice President of Performance Delivery, and she's also served in supply chain roles with a long illustrious list of companies, including the advisory board, Pricewaterhouse Coopers, I guess it's, PWC is the correct way of doing that now. Hewlett Packard, and even Walmart.

Angie holds a Bachelor of Science and transportation and Logistics near dear to my heart from the University of Tennessee. Go Vols. And in the you learn something new every day category, I see that you have noted under activities on your LinkedIn that the UT Pride of Southland Marching Band, pride of the Southland Marching Band. So I'd like to learn a little bit more about that.

Angie, welcome to the show.

Angie: Awesome. Thanks so much, Rich for having me. It's great to be here. Always look forward to connecting. And what better way to kick off a conversation than about the University of Tennessee and the Volunteers. I had the opportunity to be part of the pride of the Southland Band.

It was my way of making it through school and for five years and got to go to every single football game for five years, which was fantastic. So great alma mater and love to go back every once in a while.

Rich: What a great memory. I don't have a nice big football school to talk about.

I went to San Diego State, so now they're a football contender, but back then it wasn't. It was an embarrassment. But that's real deep. I know whenever I go down to Nashville and visit some of our friends down there who are in healthcare, they're all wearing orange. They all want to drag you to the football game.

It's a real way of life down there, isn't it?

Angie: It truly is, and it is no happenstance that one of our RDA colors just so happens to be orange so we're based out of Tennessee.

Rich: So you and I met a few years ago. We were actually doing a project at Kermit for a mutual customer Inova Healthcare out of Northern Virginia. There were actually a few Hospital Healers on that project too. What we consider to be a Hospital Healer really is somebody who is invested so much in healthcare that when they see something that is a problem and they discover that problem, they can't just turn that stone back over and walk away and forget about it. They can't sleep at night. They're ruminating over how are they going to fix that? It bothers them and that's what this show's about.

And we have people on, guests on that, we will dub you, you are now an official Hospital Healer for being on the show, but tell me in your kind of coming up through healthcare, you spent a lot of time in logistics, transportation, supply chain, and that led to healthcare supply chain.

Was there somebody who you would consider to be a Hospital Healer who influenced you and had you take the next step in your journey? Can you tell us a little bit about that person?

Angie: Definitely. When I started in healthcare many years ago, I had zero healthcare experience and needless to say, it was a huge leap.

I thought it's supply chain. How could it be any different than any other industry? And I found out very quickly it was extremely different than every other industry. And not only different, but what you do on a day-to-day basis in supply chain, even though you are not connecting with a patient, you may not be caring for a patient directly. You are impacting a patient's life.

Sharon Conklin, who is a clinician leader in the healthcare industry. She took me under her wing, so to speak to help and was one of my great mentors and really I saw her in action in the OR. She is of course, a clinician by trade and there was an OR experience that we had wherein the procedures, the cases were getting done, but things were just not operating very efficiently. We had a consulting project for this organization and in my past life, in other consulting projects, other companies, other projects, you do your job, you go home, you make sure the job gets done effectively.

In this situation, we were there at the hospital doing the project and literally her clinical practice kicked into gear and there was actually a patient that needed help and they were short staffed and she, of course was licensed, but she just really stepped in to help and took that situation with the patient and identified a whole new service line that was needed and a gap in the industry to really kickstart data and analyzing and utilizing data to help patients and provide information. So the surprises and oh my goodness, situations did not occur from a clinical productivity perspective and how to really turn around OR rooms in a much more efficient manner and pattern.

So just seeing the passion that she had, not only for patients and making a difference in everyone's lives, but she really, it wasn't just about the benefit that it was going to be to her, it was about the need for long term and for our society as a whole. And it was just very impactful for me and just seeing that happen and she, it was not about her, it was about the cause and the mission and bettering people's lives, and so she worked relentlessly to make that happen. So she was definitely a strong influence in my career and life.

Rich: As you are talking about that intersection of clinician and need and just rising to the occasion and doing it, I was just thinking about how many stories that we both heard during covid of people or allied health workers who were just, they're non-clinical, but they were being asked to do all these other things too, and those who were really strong leaders stepped in to that call. Is Sharon still practicing today? Where is she?

Angie: Yes. She is, she's independent. She's got her own company now, independent consultant for still working on clinical productivity and making good strides working with actually other companies.

Rich: Wonderful. I love that story. You nailed it. The way you described her would be somebody that I would definitely call a Hospital Healer. I love that.

Angie: And seeing her in action and just seeing the passion that she had and working tirelessly and relentlessly to make a difference in patient's lives, really inspired me to say, wow, if she's doing that as a clinician, what can I do in supply chain to have that same impact in our world.

Rich: Yeah. That's super. So I'm familiar with what Ron Denton Associates does because we stumbled into each other on a project, as I mentioned at Inova, which is a funny story. We were doing some cost reduction on med device implants for them and our team here did a wonderful job, really saved Inova a ton of money in a very short period of time.

And the person who was leading that project turned to the folks from our team and said, this was great. It was impactful and you got to savings so quickly. I have to introduce you to my boss. And we're thinking, we know your boss. He signed the contract that it's the reason why we're here.

And he said no, I don't work for the hospital. And I said, who do you work for? We didn't even know this. And that was a wonderful introduction to Ron Denton Associates and at the time Mr. Denton was still at the helm of the company. Tell us a little bit more about that journey and also specifically what services does RDA Healthcare provide?

Angie: Certainly, so it, one of the things that we have learned over the years is RDA, that is acting as an extension of the hospital is so critical. As you can tell from my past consulting experience, I've been in various types of cultures where some consulting firms go in and they provide a very nice PowerPoint recommendations.

They do an assessment, and they leave. Other consulting firms roll up their sleeves and implement. That's one of the reasons we have a literally an image of someone rolling up their sleeves on our website because, the company. Ron formed the company in 2014 for the sole purpose and cause of supporting healthcare supply chains when they need help.

And as a result of that, getting individuals who are experienced with minimum 20 years’ experience plus in healthcare supply chain. So that way when we do get the phone calls, they can step in and provide that support. And what that support entails includes consulting, which we call performance improvement.

Because our expectation is not only to provide a warm body to provide advice, but to implement those results. We also provide interim leaders, interim supply chain leaders for healthcare. So if there is a vacancy, or let's say a leader is out for a certain period of time, our resources can step in and fill in that gap until that resource comes back or until a long-term resource is hired.

And then we also provide optimization, analytics of space, inventory, et cetera, and something. Latest and greatest. I'm very excited about, we'll talk a little bit about later, is our academy that we are launching this quarter, which is going back to my roots of that first two years when I was in healthcare and had no idea what a GPO was, had no idea what a red line was.

Some of the basic things that all of us learn just by happenstance over time, or maybe some of us were fortunate to be in some sort of training program. Service line that we're building out and launching in March is this academy to provide that training to individuals who are new to healthcare or may be new to healthcare supply chain and are wanting to learn more about the basics and how things work.

So one of the ways in which we've been able to provide, not just expertise to hospitals and health systems, but we've been able to provide results and implementing expense reduction, optimizing inventory, streamlining processes, so the amount of labor that is needed can be reduced.

And that really has, during the tenure and existence of RDA, we've been able to help hundreds of hospitals, as you mentioned earlier, with those types of needs and opportunity and like our experience at Inova together, it was a combination of not just one specific service line, one specific spend category, we cover the whole supply chain, truly comprehensive from value analysis to strategic sourcing all the way through to logistics, operations, and inventory.

Rich: That's a wide breadth of services. I would imagine that when a hospital comes alongside and experiences that, and I think a lot of these types of service-based relationships are based on trust. When a hospital first comes in and they meet you, they're not sure except for what your current customers have to say, they're not sure how it's going to go, but when they do latch on and find somebody, they're really going to rely on you. And those are those relationships that really, they're fun to be engaged in. Those are the types of relationships we have as well. And they can go for quite a long time.

In your seat, some of what you covered, the services you covered, you had mentioned the interim staffing piece and some of the guests we've had recently on the show have all described the urgent need and the staffing situation that's going on inside of healthcare, both clinical and allied personnel.

So your view from where you sit running your organization what are some of the big themes around what's going on with the staffing problem? I think there maybe are opportunities there to do things differently and better, and I think it's also certainly got some people pinned down right now wondering how they're going to get out of this situation.

How do you see it?

Angie: Great question, Rich. It's very interesting to see the dynamics occur and literally what we are seeing across, multiple organizations. We work with large, small, medium health systems and inevitably, It's in essence two camps. There's always two camps of mentality and thought process around this challenge.

One thought is, oh my goodness, I'm short of staff. Everybody hunker down and let's divide and conquer with the staff that we have because I don't have time to look outside or get additional help.

The other school of thought is, we're short of staff. What can we do? How can we prioritize? Where can we get help? And how can we make the best, not just with what we have, but what are others doing to do more with less? And really that exploratory thought process and there's always pros and cons to every situation, but unfortunately what we're seeing is that first school of thought where they are really trying to just deal with what they have, hoping it will get better sooner than later.

Is very challenging because it has a negative chain reaction in that the burnout of the staff that is there is a much shorter timeframe. So the turnover of the staff, of the leadership as well is much, much higher in those situations. Whereas in comparison to that second school, the cons to that situation in school thought is it may be more complex and may be a little bit more difficult, but the net benefit financially and from a team satisfaction and tenure and less burnout is much more positive.

Rich: You shared a really interesting stat with me when we were chatting recently that there was a report that came out from AHRMM, which is an organization, a professional organization in the healthcare supply chain space. And they published this four years ago, and they said in the next five years, 65% of supply chain professionals in healthcare will be retiring.

I thought that was amazing. We're almost to the end of that five-year run. And you just highlighted some of the issues with that. So if the experienced professionals are retiring, how will let's just assume we have new people coming in. We haven't even touched on that problem, but if we do have new people coming in, how will they receive training?

Angie: Good question. There are many ways, thankfully some organizations have training programs in place and that infrastructure, the challenge is the bandwidth and the leader that's hiring the new leaders in may or may not have time, most of the time does not have time to provide that training. So there are various ways informally that they're just expected to get that training.

And we all know who have been through that sink or swim exercise. It's not that great. And doesn't result in consistent operations. It doesn't result in consistent care providing to the patients because there's inconsistencies in the supplies and the supply chain, et cetera. So that's really the impetus for creating RDA Supply Chain Academy.

We wanted a place that individuals or companies could come to get training when they don't have time to provide it informally on the job training to their new staff because there is such an influx, thankfully, of individuals coming into healthcare, which is really creating this new school of thought, new ideas and out of the box thinking, which is always refreshing. But as a result of that, we need to set them up for success and these courses that we're providing and have created are really geared and centered towards those individuals who may be working at Burger King today and are coming to work in as a supply tech in a hospital or healthcare facility tomorrow. What is the red line? What does that mean? I hear this word par what is that all about? And what is a GPO?

That it answers those types of questions that someone may or may not hear about till a year down the road or six months down the road. And so that's really the excitement and passion I have around this. I really wish this was in place when I started in healthcare many years ago.

Rich: That is the truest sense of an entrepreneur's journey, right?

You've had an experience, you saw a need it was personal to you and you wish that you had this training when you were coming up, and so you've gone ahead and created it, and you filled that gap, which is great. This is interesting because initially when I heard about this program I thought maybe it was more pervasive and it was more kind of end to end in advanced training, you're filling a very distinct need with this training, you're filling that, that early, early part that nobody ever teaches. We're all supposed to just get it by watching people or by osmosis or reading things on our own, which we don't do, where typically somebody is going to come out of, say, the food service industry, and they're going to come into healthcare. They're making a huge leap industry wise, and let's just say that they have a comfort level because they've either been in a hospital setting or spent time there at least.

When I started with my co-founders here at Kermit, my father was a cardiologist, but I had spent time in and around his office with his patients, helping do services there, running different things and spent time in the hospital.

But had I not done that, I would've been very lost and very intimidated being in that setting immediately. And so you either pick it up quickly, or you have a couple of losses and they can be huge. And you get dejected and you step out and you'll never know if you would've had a career.

So I love that spot that you're filling there with that early training. And what is the lingo, the jargon? We know it's healthcare and healthcare supply chain is full of acronyms and jargon and this is going, this is great. So let me give, you gave me a link that I'll share with the listeners now.

We'll talk about something fun that we're going to do with you, but, The RDA Training Academy can be found at www.rdahealthcare.net/training. That's the page we can get more information about the program Angie's talking about and the Healing the Hospital Podcast is doing a partnership with RDA to make a special offer to our listeners and I'll give you that information at the end of the show. So stay tuned for that on how you can take advantage. At a very reduced potentially no cost opportunity for a limited number of people to get some of this training, which would be great.

So Angie you and I both participate in a CEO leadership round table group with another friend of ours.

And he's done a really good job and he's for 40 plus years, he's been producing events in the healthcare space. And his way of doing this is bringing these events together by bringing leaders to one place and sharing ideas with them and perspectives, and it's been very powerful. So much so that you've got, Hospital CEOs who have this thing on their calendar a year ahead of time and they never miss it, and they've been doing it for 20 some odd years.

So I'm very impressed with what Hayes Waldrop has done. So you and I are in a group for CEOs of healthcare companies where we share experiences. And I'm thinking a little bit about what you're doing with your leadership, what you're doing in that group, how you're taking the lead in being an entrepreneur and coming up with new ideas like the training academy and launching things like that, that to me seems it's rare that you find the intersection of where there's a need and your passion all line up and your leadership can take hold and you can really dive in and do this.

When Ron Denton asked you to take the reins of the organization a little while back, were you already thinking about this or did this all just come about because you were of on the job and you said, here's something we need to do. I'm very passionate about it. How did the whole thing come about?

Angie: Great question. The short answer is no. I was not thinking about this. When I take over in a, quick snippet on how Ron and I connected, he and I had known each other and met during our time at Owens and Minor. And fast forward I was looking to relocate back to the Tennessee area to be closer to family and of course the Vols.

And as a result of that, I called Ron and he said do I have a deal for you? He was looking for a successor at the time and Ron has always had a passion for training and education in his military career. He did an amazing job working in the healthcare side of military in documenting best practices, standard operating procedures because without documentation and expectations, the rotation that the military has is even more of a rotation that we are experiencing now in healthcare with the labor shortages.

So training and documentation we're very critical and are very critical in the military. And shout out to the service men and women out there as a thank you for their service to our country. But when we started, the vision was really to continue to grow the company from a helping others, helping improve healthcare organizations.

That literally is our mission statement, to help improve and enhance supply chain in healthcare organizations nationwide. As we started to provide interims over, post covid, even more interim supply chain leaders in hospitals. It became very clear as we're having our touchpoints with them. Wow. What 's your greatest successes? What's your biggest challenges that you're facing in the role as a healthcare supply chain? And then it just kept coming back to staffing shortages, new staff that need training and hearing that theme. That coupled with just the conversations that we've had on Hayes CEO calls and just the insights that from other leaders in healthcare and other organizations, what they're experiencing.

It was like, this is a common theme here. That need in the market, and we wanted to make sure this was critical, that it was an offering that could be accessible by individuals. They did not have to be part of any organization if I was getting ready to work in hospital tomorrow and I just wanted to learn how hospital supply chain works we wanted those individuals to be able to take and access these courses.

Or we also heard that there are companies that want to provide this training to all of their new teammates or employees that are onboarded on an ongoing basis. And it probably didn't hurt that my mother was a teacher for 35 years.

So that teaching and training influence has always been in my bones. But as we made an investment to make sure this wasn't just an expert giving a presentation. We wanted this training to be legitimate and be very interactive. So we've all taken training classes online and it's a snooze fest. After about 15 minutes, you're falling asleep. So we hired an instructional designer who purposely made the courses very interactive, and then at the end of the course there is an exam that is intended just to validate the material and the information, the learning objectives have been complete and everyone who completes the course gets the certificate at the end.

So this could also, we wanted something that would not only better than individual or help with an organization's training platform and support that training platform. We also wanted something that those individuals could have for future career paths. From training certificates and things of that nature. So yeah, it's been very exciting.

We've gotten a lot of great feedback and shout out to those individuals who've done initial screenings and review of the training courses from different healthcare organizations and the positive feedback we've received. We really appreciate it.

Rich: Yeah. Great. Are there any plans right now to have this material be accredited with any of the healthcare organizations? Are you talking about any of that work?

Angie: Yes. We are planning to we actually are starting those discussions now. We are launching in March for online courses. We have virtual and in person courses that we've given in the past from time to time for organizations.

We are going to, in essence, build out a whole course curriculum and as part of that journey we'll be getting our courses if possible, certified.

Rich: Wonderful. That's great. You had mentioned a story to me when you first shared with me what this was going to be about. And you mentioned, I can't remember exactly, you'll have to fill in the blanks for me here on the Amazon employees that were being trained.

What was that story about that was interesting?

Angie: So we were doing an assessment in a hospital and when we do a supply chain assessment, we start at the receiving dock and follow the flow of the product all the way through to the clinical end user, to look at the process, look at the resources, look at the technology being used, so on and so forth.

And so, we do interviews along the way just to understand what the current state is, what the challenges are, and where opportunities are. And as a result of that, there was a gentleman who was walking around training a new hire, and as he was training the new hire, it was a city where there was an Amazon warehouse. And this gentleman had just moved from that city to this city where there was not an Amazon warehouse and he had a family experience where someone in his family had been sick and he had a desire to be in healthcare. He really wanted to make the switch over into the healthcare industry.

So here's the supervisor, was training this individual. On the job training, of course walking around, putting product away, saying this is how this is done. And he said, I've got 15 minutes to spend with you to train you. And the light bulb went off in my head of, oh my goodness, I remember that situation.

And for those consultants that are out there working with large organizations, you can relate that you get a call on a Friday and you're told be an expert by Monday, and I'm thinking this individual is going to be going into clinical areas and making sure the supply, his role was to make sure the supplies were on the shelf. He was going to be a supply tech.

And this was a massive organization. And just even finding the way from the receiving dock to the nursing floors he was responsible for was a monumental task in of itself. And when he asked the question, he said how can I learn more about healthcare and what else needs to be done, what that I need to be doing to do a good job?

And the response was, you'll just have to learn that as you go. And so it was, and that's normal, right? That's really normal, especially in the labor shortage that we're experiencing as a country today. There's really, I'm literally looking forward to having a platform and source for individuals and companies to really help their, help the resources and themselves in an individual to expand their knowledge on healthcare supply chain.

Rich: I'm excited to see what you do with this. I've always been a big fan of the services you provide. You help us personally and our mission to deliver cost reduction and spend management to our hospital clients. And I think we have a good working partnership there with a few active projects we're working on, but this is different. This is really solving a huge problem that is not just a problem that you see that benefits your organization by bringing up people that are well educated and could actually, years from now 25 years from now, take a seat on your bench as part of your interim solution, but it helps healthcare as a whole.

I think your original comment about how hospitals are underwater with this whole thing and the solution is let's hire somebody and let's just throw them in and see if they sink or swim because we're too busy to give them what they need right now. Hopefully we've made a good hire and they'll figure it out, but it's got to be done differently now.

We're really in a dire position now where we have to get our hands on resources far and wide. It can't just be the best of the best. They're either actively working somewhere and we're going to have to pay them more to come over to fix our problem, or they're retiring. And so we just need new, fresh people.

And I think the solution that you've come up with is a wonderful application to help in that problem. It takes a million little chips at this stone for us all to make a difference. And this is one that's really great. So, I'm glad you had a chance to detail some of that. And you had a chance to tell the listeners a little bit about your background and history and also the services that RDA provides. So thanks so much for being on the show today.

Angie: Awesome. Thanks, Rich.

Rich: Really enjoyed that conversation. I hope you did too. There's a lot of really positive things going on amidst all the negative things that we hear about healthcare these days.

Angie said something that was interesting that I wanted to grab onto. She said that for consultants out there, working with large organizations, you get a call on Friday and you're told to be an expert by Monday. That really hit the spot for me. I've experienced that firsthand, more than a few times in my career.

And so I started a conversation with a few of our team members here at Kermit yesterday about this very concept because I was interested to validate some of what we just heard from Angie. One of my team members who was being deployed to set up an electronic medical record system before he joined Kermit in a different era of his professional career, got that Friday call asking what he knew about anesthesiology information systems and he replied, not much actually not wanting to divulge to his employer that he knew exactly zero about them. And then they put them on a plane the following week to go set up a new system for an anesthesiology practice so this is not uncommon.

A couple of other team members also chimed in with some interesting things I wanted to share with you. One of them said, it very much can feel like sink or swim environment when you're new. I think the expectation in healthcare is new hires should be knowledgeable on the culture and terminology regardless of tenure. In the absence of any formal training, I found that having a mentor is a huge advantage. You can't always rely on good leadership and management in your new organization to help you get footing. A training program would be well received and appreciated by green employees and would allow them to perform their role with more confidence right out of the gate.

One of our other staff members, a strategic advisor here is working with one of our new hospital clients on a project, and he reported the following.

He says one of our clients has a new position in supply chain that came from the aerospace industry, and this new individual admits that he has some learning to do and quickly, and he needs to get it done outside of his daily duties. My experience is that this gap exists not only for new employees in their first hospital job, but it's also pretty common, especially in the ambulatory surgical center market where supply chain management is being run by clinical operating room staff who do not necessarily have the back office training or analytics to surface cost savings opportunities or successfully negotiate new pricing.

And then I heard from a third team member here, and this is from Lisa Hudson. So if you're a fan of the show, you might remember Lisa appearing on one of the earlier segments, and you know how bright she is and she says this.

If only more hospitals had a training program like this for new and experienced supply chain professionals, I've seen the disconnect in fundamental supply chain principles and terminology across the board. Where there should be a stronger level of understanding a supply chain training program to help educate new employees as much needed. Imagine how much talent we be able to equip, enrich, and retain just by giving folks the tools and training they need to succeed.

So I would say that at least from the Kermit team Angie's message and offering resonated and was resoundingly validated as a need. My hope is that we're able to recruit and equip the next generation of healthcare supply chain workers and leaders to take us into the future.

And that will conclude this episode of Healing the Hospital Podcast. I want to thank Angie Haggard for being this episode's Hospital Healer. Angie and RDA Healthcare are offering their course, nonclinical Healthcare Protocols Short course at no additional charge with the purchase of another course.

So please see the show notes for more information on how you can take advantage of that offer and to stay up to date with everything that is The Healing The Hospital Podcast, follow us on LinkedIn and YouTube. These links and more are in the show notes. We want to bring the stories of Hospital Healers changing things for the better.

So if you would like to nominate a Hospital Healer to be featured at a future episode, visit kermitppi.com/healingthehospital and submit the contact form. And if you're enjoying The Healing The Hospital Podcast, be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode. And please leave a five star rating wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Thank you for spending part of your day with us and for listening to this episode of Healing the Hospital podcast. I've been your host Rich Palarea and I'll see you next time.

Healing the Hospital is a Kermit podcast. To learn more about Kermit your implant spend management experts, visit www.kermitppi.com.